Legislature(1997 - 1998)
03/20/1997 01:10 PM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 151 - BIG GAME GUIDES AND REGISTRATION AREAS Number 1685 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced the next order of business was House Bill No. 151, "An Act relating to personal hunting of big game by big game guides while clients are in the field and to use area registration for portions of additional guide use areas by registered guides." Before the committee, adopted on March 11 as a work draft, was proposed committee substitute 0-LS0618\B, Utermohle, 3/11/97. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN, sponsor, briefly recapped the bill. He opened the meeting for public comment. Number 1830 RICHARD GUTHRIE testified via teleconference from Anchorage in support of HB 151. A guide outfitter, he said everyone he had spoken with supports prohibiting a guide from hunting while with a client. There had been past abuses of that. MR. GUTHRIE commented on Section 5. In a few situations, land ownership boundaries do not coincide with guide use area boundaries. For example, he has a permit from the National Park Service to hunt in a park reserve that overlaps two different state guide use areas. In the past, through the regulations, he could register in the use area where his camp had been for over 17 years, and he was allowed to use that portion of the adjacent guide use area for which his National Park Service permit was valid. If he lost that, using the area would no longer be economically viable because of recent changes in seasons and species open to hunting. Number 2072 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN advised that the practice addressed in Section 5 was previously allowed in regulation. However, it was not included in the legislation that passed. It is limited in scope, affects few people and is only in areas where nobody else can hunt. He believes it is common sense. Number 2121 GARY KING, JR., testified via teleconference from Anchorage. He had worked the previous session with Senator Halford and Representative Ogan to put the new guide statutes in place. Although he favors the concept of Section 5, he does not favor the wording. MR. KING said he has guided in an area since 1971. After 1980, when the National Park Service came in, he was permitted to use a certain geographical area. However, when it was mapped, one line did not coincide with his federal permitting area, cutting off eight to ten square miles that would have significant financial impact should he be unable to use it. He is one of several guides in this situation. MR. KING suggested rewording Section 5, page 4, beginning with line 30, to read, "in which the registered guide is already registered if the registered guide can demonstrate to the department that he holds a valid federal permit to conduct guided hunting in that portion of the adjacent area where the portion of the guide's existing federal permit area was mapped into an adjacent area because state guide use area boundaries do not coincide with federal permit or concession areas." Number 2452 KURT WEST, Licensing Supervisor, Division of Occupational Licensing, Department of Commerce and Economic Development, came forward at Co-Chairman Ogan's request. TAPE 97-29, SIDE A Number 0006 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Mr. West to comment on Mr. King's proposed wording. MR. WEST asked to hear it again. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN requested that Mr. King fax it. MR. KING said his comments were included in a letter of March 5, 1997, faxed to Co-Chairman Ogan's office. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN said he did not see it in the file. Number 0104 MR. KING noted that he had also sent letters to the Department of Commerce and Economic Development over the last year. He offered to fax it again, however. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN advised that there would be no quorum soon and that he wished to move the bill. He said it could possibly be amended on the House floor. He asked that Mr. King fax his wording. Co-Chairman Ogan would run it by the legislative drafter and ask Mr. West to compare with the language of the old regulations. He asked Mr. King whether, to his knowledge, his wording coincides with the previous policy. MR. KING said it does not 100 percent parallel the language of the old regulations. "And as you recall, I had a problem with the old regs when they were drafted," he added. Number 0215 BILL LOMAX testified via teleconference from Anchorage. He concurs with Mr. King that the language is unfair. He said the new mapping process could annex a portion of an existing permit area into an additional guide use area. Changing the language, which affects a number of guides, would make it a much cleaner bill. Number 0292 WAYNE WOODS testified via teleconference from Mat-Su. He proposed adding a new subsection to Section 2, page 4, following line 1, to read, "(19) it is unlawful for a transporter to remain in the field with clients beyond the normal duties of dropping off or retrieving clients, meat and hunting equipment." MR. WOODS said there is beginning to be quite a problem with transporters remaining in the field with clients and assisting with hunting. He said the Division of Fish and Wildlife Protection is having a difficult time making a case for guiding without a license without placing some constraints on the transporter industry. "I don't mind taking on a higher level of responsibility, but I want a corresponding measure of protection for my license by the state for doing this," he explained. MR. WOODS said Captain Joel Hard had testified March 15, 1997, at the Board of Game hearing that the lowest level of regulatory compliance is with drop-off hunters serviced by transporters, whereas the highest level of compliance has been by guides and local resident hunters. He said this problem is starting to have an impact on the general hunting public, with greater restriction on seasons and bag limits in part due to this problem. He believes it can be rectified simply by making this amendment. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Captain Hard to comment. Number 0454 CAPTAIN JOEL HARD, Commander, B Detachment, Division of Fish and Wildlife Protection, Department of Public Safety, testified via teleconference. He had been asked to address the Board of Game about enforcement concerns relating to the Mulchatna herd in Units 17, 19 and 9. In that testimony, he stated that the division's experience in those units, with that caribou herd, is that they see the highest rate of wanton waste compliance, and salvage requirements being met, by subsistence and guided hunters. The lowest compliance rate in that area is by nonresident and resident drop-off hunters. Number 0527 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked whether that is basically a fly-in hunt. CAPTAIN HARD said yes, although there is some boat traffic hunting in Unit 17, primarily, and then up into 19. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked whether people taking others on boat hunts were accompanying them in the field and assisting with the hunt. CAPTAIN HARD indicated in those areas, they rarely see transporters using boats. The boat traffic there is primarily from resident hunters. Number 0576 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked whether there are areas having problems with transporters accompanying hunters and hunting with them in the field. CAPTAIN HARD explained, "We have investigated a number of cases and received complaints, I'm going to say primarily in my experience in Southeast Alaska with spring bear hunters, where we're seeing some transporters accompanying clients beyond the point of beaching. And it's difficult for us to determine whether or not there is a guiding activity ongoing, or if there's just an accompanying for the pleasure of the outing." CAPTAIN HARD continued, "Without specific statements or evidence of remuneration, it's difficult to make a criminal case of guiding without a license. I think the current regulation, although it was intending to prevent transporters from accompanying people in the field, it doesn't clearly state that you cannot do that." Number 0661 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN offered an amendment, 0-LS0618\B.1, Utermohle, 3/18/97, which read: Page 3, line 26: Delete "class-A assistant guide" Insert "person who is licensed as a registered guide, a class-A assistant guide," Page 3, line 28: Delete "class-A assistant guide or the assistant guide" Insert "person" Page 3, line 29: Delete "class-A assistant guide or assistant guide" Insert "person" Page 3, line 31, through 4, line 1: Delete "class-A assistant guide or assistant guide" Insert "person" CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN explained that the intention is to prevent guides from hunting in the field. However, Eddie Grasser, aide to Representative Masek, had felt there was a loophole because a guide contracted with another guide does not fall under the current description. Number 0732 EDWARD GRASSER, Legislative Assistant to Representative Beverly Masek, explained he had noticed a loophole. As the bill is written, registered or master guides, as Mr. Grasser had been, may not hunt while in the field if they contract with a client. Neither may an assistant guide do so. However, a registered guide working for another registered or master guide was not precluded from doing so. Thus, the amendment. CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN said the drafters felt this amendment takes care of the problem. CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN made a motion to adopt the amendment. There being no objection, it was so ordered. Number 0848 REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS made a motion to move the committee substitute, as amended, from committee with individual recommendations. There being no objection, CSHB 151(RES) moved from the House Resources Standing Committee.
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